There's hyper relevance. if you try to be everything to everyone, then you are nothing to no one. So, we do really focus right now on kind of your director level, your women in their mid thirties, early forties. That's sort of our core customer and that level of experience and relevance. That's something I really see us as being vetted rather than sort of exclusive. It's not excluding people for the sake of it. It's really how every person we bring into the community can contribute as much as they can receive. That's really key. A lot of it has to do with creating the scaffolding before a little bit of those touch points.- Yolanda Lee
At 18, Yolanda rented an abandoned industrial warehouse in her hometown of Toronto and got artists like Daft Punk and Major Lazer to play there by messaging them on Myspace. She went on to intern at the European Court for Human Rights and graduated top of her class at Oxford. Her early career included launching and leading the team for a Rocket Internet food startup in West Africa and working in market launch for Uber in Sub-Saharan Africa. After 3 years on the African continent, Yolanda expanded her experience to Asia where she built the Deliveroo partnerships team across APAC and the Middle East. Yolanda prides herself in her brave and unconventional approach to success and a lifelong growth mindset. She embraced entrepreneurship by setting up her own company, Uncommon, born out of her own experience as a female leader. Uncommon aims to build a more inclusive future of work through offering a private leadership network for women in Southeast Asia and beyond. It provides a strong and uplifting network of senior industry leaders, a personalized development roadmap, executive group coaching, masterclass workshops, and an enriching speaker series, all in one membership.
Jeremy Au: (00:30)
Hi Yolanda. I am excited to have you on the show. You’re a founder, you’re an operator and you’re building a community. So, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts and insights.
Yolanda Lee: (00:37)
Awesome. Thank you so much for having me today, Jeremy.
Jeremy Au: (00:40)
So what's interesting, Yolanda, is that you've been someone who has been in the tech space and been an entrepreneur since young. Could you share a little bit more about when you first started being entrepreneurial?
Yolanda Lee: (00:50)
Yeah, that's a great question. I think that I've always had that kind of entrepreneurial drive in me. I would, I think my family really encouraged that. I think I came from parents who are quite entrepreneurial on the side as well. I just think I just always was able to kind of see a situation and also envision how it could be better.
So, that's really something I carried with me. When I was a teenager, I didn't like the music scene in my hometown of Toronto. So, I would message deejays on Myspace. I'm showing my age, message them on Myspace and book them for shows at this warehouse space that I had with my friends. So, that was a very early instance of it.
And I think that's something I kind of then carried with me throughout my career.
Jeremy Au: (01:40)
You've done a lot since that early entrepreneurial experience. Could you share a little bit more by yourself since then?
Yolanda Lee: (01:44)
Yeah, definitely! So, I'm born and raised in Toronto, Canada. I have always had this lens of wanting to expand the boundaries of my comfort zone, whether that was in the work I did, whether that was in the geographies I worked in. That's something, you know, now looking back, having lived and worked in over ten countries across most recently here and based here in Singapore.
For the past seven years, I've worked across Africa, the Middle East, Europe and in North America. My crossing was definitely an uncommon path. I would say, you know I started off doing a lot of work in the music industry. As I mentioned, I worked for a major label recording artist as a production assistant, then did a stint in international development and internships for the European Court of Human Rights for the UN, and then ultimately took that kind of purpose driven lens and really believed in technology's ability to transform lives.
So, I started my first job in tech in sub-Saharan Africa. I was working for Rocket Internet initially, you know, building their first e-commerce business and then food delivery business from the ground up in West Africa. Then I worked for Uber in market launch in the early days and which took me to Kenya and South Africa and then came out to Southeast Asia on a whim and was really fascinated and enthralled by the kind of the ecosystem that had that same momentum that I saw in Africa.
I was still early, even in a lot of emerging markets. But the ecosystem was also further along. So, I moved out here. I joined Deliveroo. I'm in their first year of operation, had a variety of commercial and operational leadership roles and looked after APAC and the Middle East. Then I got to where I am today, which is really born out of my own experience.
Then, I founded Uncommon, which is a private professional network for women in leadership, really, starting from the question of what if a professional network could really do more for women? So, we offer everything from kind of peer coaching to workshops to really deeper, deeper connections as a community as well.
Jeremy Au: (03:50)
Amazing! And I think what's interesting is that you've always had this very global outlook. So, you know, you've worked as a market launcher in multiple markets across, it is Africa thru Middle East thru APAC, so, could you share a little bit more about why you've taken away from the experience working across these companies as a market launcher?
Yolanda Lee: (04:20)
Yeah! What I've taken away is twofold. So firstly, you as human beings, we all want the same things. We want to feel safe, we want to belong, we want to connect with people. We want to feel like we can have a sustainable livelihood. There are some universal truths that exist within human beings as building a bit. When you're building a business.
The flip side of that coin is that you really have to have the humility to separate your own experience from the markets that you're building in. This is one of probably the most common mistakes I see in Internet when it startups to international expansion is that they think they can kind of copy paste. So, there's a sort of projection of the way that they do things in their home market will be the same in other markets.
And, so knowing localization and how to actually operationalize it and how to have the humility to do things a little bit differently is something really important. A big one for us and this is kind of an obvious one. But when I was working for Uber in Kenya at the time, Uber didn't want to do cash payments. It was a taboo within the company.
But you're looking at markets where you have a 2% credit card penetration and of that 2%, 40% were being rejected by the banks. Yeah! So, knowing how to kind of build products that can weave into the kind of local tendencies is really important.
Jeremy Au: (05:37)
Yeah! In the service you work in a company, some have been better at market launch and entry as I have been and I think you kind of like started talking a little bit about one of those behaviours that make it worse in terms of a market launch or entry perspective. How else would you say differentiates like a good company does good at market launching and entry and winning for is one that it was?
Yolanda Lee: (06:01)
Yeah! The best companies that I can see are fantastic at play booking and really learning from each market that they launch and having those sort of shared resources across the team, that is really key so that you're not making the same mistake in multiple markets. I think it's also about getting the right team in. You need team members.
Even if you send someone who doesn't, who has the organisational knowledge but not the local market knowledge, that person has to hire teams that understand that, have that operator experience on the ground, because there's sometimes a lot of unforeseen challenges. You know when not even though I was sort of a market launch that I was at Rocket, you know my entire team of 60 was local and that was really important to the success of the business and I didn't always quite frankly I think I sometimes made mistakes and thought I could do things a different way.
But having that humility, again, to kind of listen and to operationalize and trust those that really understand the market.
Jeremy Au: (07:08)
And what's interesting, of course, is that these are all the things that make it good, right? Team humility, hiring locally, being fast move and localising like cash on payment instead of credit card. I think what we've seen actually is that for both Rocket, for Uber, but for a lot of other companies that try to scale, all of them have actually ended up losing to local competitors.
And I feel like all the things you said are things that I'm sure someone in Global HQ has written down on a white board regularly. Humility, move fast, locally, hire local. They still lose, right? Even though they have all these advantages like they already have the core platform, supposedly. Read and repeat. You have the market entry, you have a capital.
So, what do you think are the advantages of the local player or why is it that they are able to win from your perspective?
Yolanda Lee: (07:53)
There's very clear reasons. If there's an ability to build, when you don't have a global product. You know, within a global product, you've got to create features, you've got to create a product that can work across your many markets. When you are maybe focusing on a region, you're able to meet the needs of your customer.
You're able to take that customer obsession to the next level. You can be customer obsessed and be in 50 countries, but you're going to find that common denominator and you're not going to be able to dig into or put dev resources behind these very localised kinds of pain points for your customer. And so ultimately, you're not serving them to the highest degree.
So, that's what I've seen a lot of this kind of blitz scale, is that they just simply can't build those localization and beat out competitors that can and ultimately win on serving customer needs, on meeting their behaviour and building products that are more aligned.
Jeremy Au: (08:52)
Should, I mean from a consumer perspective, I was curious would you vote for a global technology player or should you vote for a local competitor? I'm just kind of curious because, you know, you've been on both sides, you're a local builder, you've been part of the global team fighting. I guess a lot of consumers always feel like they should bother or should they just vote for the best product? I'm just so curious about how you think about it.
Yolanda Lee: (09:15)
Yeah! So I've always worked for global players, but never in HQ, so I really understand this, this challenge super intimately. Yeah, I think you vote for the product that's best meeting your needs and that's how I see customers behave. Yeah! I wouldn't necessarily solely choose a and I don't think consumers solely choose a product, because say the brand or the founders from that region, I think that they're also very strong on building and understanding those nuances.
You know, the simple one is Deliveroo when we did the taxonomy of cuisine types in the UK, it's okay to say that this is it to the selected cuisine type that says Chinese. Like there's Chinese food. But you know, in Singapore there's such a range and you know, whether you're having mala or you're having dim sum or you're having a char kuey teow.
So, it's a very different kind of search experience and being able to build that and can help drive conversion. But you just can't roll something out like that or hasn't necessarily been rolled out with the kind of local nuances as well.
Jeremy Au: (10:24)
I think that local nuance is really something that the market launcher and the country general manager eventually really has to do a lot of work off and obviously their local competitors by design localise. How do you convince HQ to pay attention because that's what I've heard all the time from up and I'm just right is like global product global engineering doesn’t prioritise the features and that's why we're losing right to some extent, even with the right money, incentives, etc..
So, is there any hack or any ways to advocate optically a case or compel or whatever it is?
Yolanda Lee: (10:58)
No! I think this is a skill set that is sometimes overlooked in global organisations and that sometimes as a builder, as an operator, you're like, okay, I can just show the numbers and show the business case and it's going to get built. Because of the size of the opportunity. This is something we work on actually a lot at Uncommon. In stakeholder management, the more senior you become, the more you need to kind of work with central product teams and it isn't always about going in guns blazing and shoving a business case down their throats. I think where I have been successful in getting product support is you've got to build those relationships, you've got to take people on that journey.
As an APAC leader, I think I had to spend time with each person in HQ and get them to understand what it takes and that is overload and that can take time as well. It doesn’t always, you know the results, but where I can see it has worked is helping educate people on that journey and educate them as well in those teams.
Jeremy Au: (12:02)
What's interesting is, you know, some of the missions are a little bit about Uncommon and I talk often about how you care about female and women leadership and representation.
Could you share a little bit more before I talk about Uncommon like what was your experience as a women executive and how that eventually inspired you to do something about it?
Yolanda Lee: (12:21)
I grew up with three brothers. I think I'm pretty great at whether you call it code switching or, you know, or being in male dominated environments. I don't think that's true for all women. But what I realised, like being on leadership teams, is that you get to a certain point where there aren't that many women.
I think I was one of three out of 50 countries' country managers and where that becomes challenging is that it becomes very easy to give back. You can mentor younger women, you can sit on a panel and there's a lot of opportunities for that. But there's not there weren't a lot of ways that I could actually connect with women who are in the same boat, who are facing some of the similar challenges or could understand some of the nuances.
So, yeah! Uncommon was really born out of that. Just this idea that leadership is lonely for anyone, but that it's particularly lonely for female leaders. If we can bring together women who are, you know, across different industries, kind of with winning and finding that playbook for getting ahead and we could kind of rewrite the rules ourselves and really see more women almost like our concept of time travel, but see more women in leadership positions faster, see them making more decisions and ultimately seeing that kind of transform society overall. So, that was sort of the thinking behind that.
Jeremy Au: (13:44)
You use the phrase like code switching, they get used to it and you know, it happens a lot. So, what's unique or different about code switching? Because if I am in America, I speak differently because of the hard enunciation, my vocabulary and even the TV shows I talk about are very SouthEast Asia. Then there's a difference in how you cross the border between Indonesia, Singapore, there's a huge amount of difference as well.
And so there's a lot of code switching in terms of the cultural and geographic aspects of it. But, I think you say something unique about the aspect of women and code switching. Could you share a little bit more about what you mean by that?
Yolanda Lee: (14:19)
Sure! I think because when we look at the workplace, I do think we're going through this upheaval of the work, the greatest kind of upheaval in the workplace that we've seen since the Industrial Revolution. But, the workplace is really not designed with women as a feature. It was designed as women sort of about to use that analogy.
So, a lot of I think how women have been taught to lead was like, let me just copy paste what men were doing and the challenge with that, it's not as simple as like, okay, I speak differently with my Trinidadian family than I do with on this podcast. But it's also that it isn't the same playbook. If there is, you know, the kind of tell tale, the classic story is that often the senior women and I've had this myself is you'll have feedback, you'll get performance reviews where it will say, like, you're too aggressive, people are afraid of you.
Then you also get that you're not assertive enough and so you're constantly walking this tightrope. So the same behaviour isn't always perceived. It doesn't always land in the same way. So it isn't quite as simple as, okay, I'm just going to change the way I'm operating because that doesn't necessarily get me ahead in the same way.
Jeremy Au: (15:41)
When you think about that phrase about getting ahead and talking about performance reviews and I think of coding, I think of various behaviours, I think what bugs you the most personally about all of that? I mean, you know, we're talking about this at a high level, but are there any particular things that bug you the most in your own experience? Observation?
Yolanda Lee: (16:03)
Yeah, definitely! Jeremy, I don't have to pay my therapist. So, I agree. Let me unpack this. Yeah. So one thing I struggled with when I was first in my tech leadership roles was what does your success actually get attributed to? I remember, you know, my region had sort of outperformed everyone and we were in this global offsite and our CEO was saying how to give out awards, but just calling out success.
I remember I had to cancel the vacation to get this deal off the ground. I had to work at this time. I worked every weekend. I was working, I set 17 hour days and he called out, you know, the success of my markets, but then sort of qualified that with like, well, we all know that Yolanda gets by on that winning smile and charm.
I remember, like, not really knowing what to say, but being really frustrated with that because I had worked so hard and to have it kind of boiled down to something so kind of meaningless was really hard. And I think this is something that sometimes a lot of women face as well.
Jeremy Au: (17:13)
Well, I think this to be out for sure, but it’s okay. I agree better be frustrated over drinks on that. Yeah! Especially if you feel like working like a dog, right. I think that's something that obviously I think different flavours of that you know, for my sister she's also a technology executive and other folks.
So, what is it about hanging out with other women and I put an equity deposit on. How does that help you solve that problem? Because, I actually met another executive and she was very much like, well, my key takeaway is I don't hang out with other women. I hang out with the boys or the men, and that's how I get ahead and that's how I succeeded.
That feels like, obviously, as far as like the older generation point of view. But I'm just kind of curious about what it is that being with other women helps you solve that issue from your perspective?
Yolanda Lee: (18:04)
Yeah! I don't think it's an either or. I think that, you know, even for myself as a founder, there's times when I'm hanging out with all men. You know, the way things are right now, you have to. But I think what happens, it's the same reason. You know, when I think I look at other networks, why do you have a network that is, you know, solely for individuals in law?
When it comes down to a level of relevance. And the reason why we decided to focus on Uncommon, being for women only for now in this stage of the company was that there is this increased level of openness and safety and actually being able to say what's on your mind. And then you can go out to those rooms full of men, you can go into those places where nobody looks like you and nobody has your experience, but you have that sense of being a lot less alone. You have that sense of, “Oh! I'm learning from other people who have been in these same situations.”
So, I definitely think you need to kind of have a network outside of that. But in terms of building safety, in terms of being able to speak very openly and candidly about one's experience, I think having that hyper relevance is key.
Jeremy Au: (19:15)
You talk about safety, security, being able to share openly and that's rare. If I were saying something like, “Hey, Jeremy, I want to be safe and secure about talking about the latest interest rate hikes in Europe!” I'll be like, Yeah, I'll give you a safe and secure talk about that. We chat for hours on that, but you ask me to be like, okay, my boss said I had a winning smile and charm and I felt pissed off about that. It held that, you know that's a very difficult topic to feel safe and securely to talk about. So, how do you design a space for that from your perspective?
Yolanda Lee: (19:49)
Yeah! that's something we kind of look at our customer lifecycle and we look at each touchpoint from when we get a waitlist application, to when we get them via interview, to when we contract with them on onboarding. A lot of this is woven into it. And so even how we have that, it's not simply just, okay, is this person good on paper?
There's also an element of are they community minded? Are they able to hold space for others? That is a really important component of bringing someone into Uncommon. Then we do a lot of work on onboarding and kind of contracting, you know assigning a code of conduct, understanding those principles, but also teaching women around Uncommon to be a peer coach.
Sometimes it is also about how you respond when somebody shares something really vulnerable? What are the tools in your toolkit? Is it that you can give an observation? You can ask a question, you can delve a little bit deeper, and ask to give your perspective. So I think it's also just how we set it up. But I will never say we create a safe space because I think it's something that the entire community has the contract on.
So, it's not on me as an individual, as something as a founder, but it's as it's something that's woven into and in the charge of every single one of our members.
Jeremy Au: (21:09)
I think that makes sense, obviously, from a process perspective as a community design perspective. But how do you create that moment like one of the attributes within that space that makes it okay for someone to share about something tough that happened that day as some frustration to have?
Yolanda Lee: (21:24)
Yeah! We actually have a vulnerability index that we go through with our coaches and facilitators. And so having them, it's also how we help them facilitate, how we train them, how we actually enable them to model that behaviour. How I as a founder actually model that behaviour within the community as well. So that's important.
But, you've got to take people on that journey. I don't think we start our first session with like, “Okay, everybody share your deepest childhood trauma.” But there's, there's ways that, you know, whether it's the way that we do a check in. So, we might ask, what is your top 5% experience since we last saw you and what's been the bottom 5%?
So, even just having that and sometimes, you know, in a group because when we did the pilot, I actually co facilitated all of our sessions and you'll always have a range of people. You have people who come in and are just very able to kind of open up and you'll have people who are much more guarded.
But, what I can see in every group is that people move. We move the needle. So, whether someone starts it like a seven out of ten on the vulnerability spectrum and gets to an eight and or someone starts with a two and they get to a three. That's still progress and still making them feel seen and heard, even just through hearing other people's experiences.
Jeremy Au: (22:48)
When you say this vulnerability index, it’s interesting! Because that's like saying, the weakness index or the Death Star exploit ability index. I guess vulnerability is not, I want to use that as a positive phrase. I'll be like our competitors, a vulnerability. Let's attack. But, because I also understand where you're coming from. But I'm just kind of curious like, why is vulnerability important? Why is that such a metric or a cornerstone of how you're thinking about community?
Yolanda Lee: (23:15)
Yeah! Well, I think it's very related to the name of this podcast. I think it actually takes so much courage. It's very easy to be guarded and closed and it takes so much courage to be and bravery to be vulnerable. This is a lot of sort of Brené Brown work. But as a leader as well, it takes a lot of courage and building that muscle is really key.
As a community, though, when we think about building the new network, it's not about just transactional. What can you do for me? What can I do for you? Everybody has their guard up because they think you want something from them. We're really building connections and I would actually go so far as to say it is impossible to really build connections between individuals without a degree of vulnerability.
That's ultimately how you also build the currency of trust. I think the strongest networks really are successful at building trust between individuals.
Jeremy Au: (24:15)
Trust between individuals and vulnerability. But how does vulnerability lead to trust between individuals from your perspective?
Yolanda Lee: (24:23)
Well, if you're able to see usually if someone can be open and vulnerable, you're often able as humans, we compare how we feel on the inside with how other people look on the outside. So, if you can get a glimpse at how someone is doing on the inside, you're actually able to see your own experience. In seeing your own experience within someone else, that also will help you feel that sense of trust towards them. So, that is a little bit why it's a key ingredient.
Jeremy Au: (24:54)
The community that you build over time, what would you say are some of the secret sauce of that? Because I think everyone's in community design that is maybe the Twitterverse and that part is very big on that. But, what would you say that sounds like? You talk about some of the vulnerability index, having a screening process, but what would you say makes the most sense for other people who are looking to build a community of their own?
Yolanda Lee: (25:16)
Yeah! I also think there's hyper relevance. I think if you try to be everything to everyone, then you are nothing to no one. So, we do really focus right now on kind of your director level, your women in their mid thirties, early forties. That's sort of our core customer and that level of, of experience and relevance.
That's something I really see us as being vetted rather than sort of exclusive. It's not excluding people for the sake of it. It's really how every person we bring into the community can contribute as much as they can receive. That's really key. A lot of it has to do with creating the scaffolding before a little bit of those touch points.
You know, you can write your values of your community and you can put them on your platform. But, if you're not bringing them to life, if you're not looking at how we are actually operationalizing these, how are we also giving the keys, which we hold as a team to the community that I think is really, really important.
If we're not doing that, then you can't really scale the community. So now we have a membership committee, we have industry leaders within the community. We have interest groups for, you know, working mothers, for women struggling with fertility, for all of these interest groups. Those are led by women in the community. In doing that, in doing so, we're able to really see that community kind of take on a life of its own, as well.
Jeremy Au: (26:46)
Amazing! Could you share with us about the time that you personally have been brave?
Yolanda Lee: (26:51)
Yeah, I, I will say the first time, but this is this is, think about bravery and how I've carried it forward. I'm sort of your classic kid of immigrants. My parents were from Trinidad and Tobago. They came to the country, very poor. As a teenager and grew up in Canada, I had a very big focus on education.
My parents worked really hard to send me to like the best schools and in Canada but a big point of bravery. Because of this they really wanted me to have a stable career like a doctor or work in finance. A big point of bravery for me was actually learning to define my own success. So, I had done one year of university in Canada, in finance, and I was not happy.
I came back to the city and I didn't want to go back. My parents were really pushing me to kind of live a life that was defined by their version of success. I think a recipe for unhappiness is leading a life for someone else's version of success. So, you know, they were very strict these days.
I ended up moving out, supporting myself at age 18. That's where I had this music industry business as well, working many jobs. But, that was a point of bravery where I took a really challenging road, eventually did go back to university, and finished off my class at Oxford. So, they were happy with me. But, I think just defining my own path and defining my own path to success and doing things that are aligned with my own vision for success, that's the most kind of a brave lens that I take.
It's not always the easiest path, but it's one that I try to stick to.
Jeremy Au: (28:33)
I laughed at the part where, you know, you fell out with your parents, but you recovered when you graduated top of Oxford. It's like a dream!
Yolanda Lee: (28:42)
Yeah. So there's certainly their approval somewhere.
Jeremy Au: (28:47)
I'm sure that they laugh about it now as well. I think there's a tricky part, which is I think the parents' expectations about what they think is the safest route, or what they think is the best route. This is how you think about it. Obviously to some extent, we were effectively much older and wiser, hopefully today versus how do you think folks should reconcile, understand that parental conflict versus…
I think there's a big difference between like the family of origin and life of choice. Right? It’s a transition bomb, is how do you help people go to that moment? Because I think that's a common problem for a lot of folks.
Yolanda Lee: (29:24)
For sure! I see that even though I'm from the west, I think there's a similar thread in Southeast Asia where you have, you know, a lot of people being that kind of first generation success or and so you have that same level of pressure. What I tell my parents is the playbook that they need to follow to get us as a family from point A to point B, fundamentally different from what I need to take the next generation from point B to point C, that is how I think about it.
You know, I definitely have had periods of my life where things were more stable, more straightforward, more optimised for stability. But, I also think that with that, you don't necessarily have the same ability to take risks and I'd also have a huge upside if it does work out. So, I think talking to my parents about that and then sort of seeing that actually the path that they paved gave me the ability to... Yes! put in place some structures for stability, but also to take these calculated risks in my career as well.
So not all parents will understand that. But I think you have one life to live and living it in a way that is aligned to yourself and your values is really important and yields, it is the best results, in my opinion.
Jeremy Au: (30:51)
What's interesting obviously is like point A to point B is what your parents do, and point B to point C, is what you're working on. Is there any way to communicate that? How do you have that conversation with your parents? Because I think it's one thing I think that's probably like the fact of it. But, how do you have that conversation? Is it not reconcilable and then possible? What do you think about that?
Yolanda Lee: (31:12)
I think it's a showing versus telling. Maybe this is my background. I do have a bit of a rebellious shriek. It's also getting to a point where you're not asking for their permission and approval upfront, but taking them on that journey and trying to have them understand their perspective, which sometimes they don't.
When I talk about my music industry period, my parents were furious. They had worked so hard. They had sent me to private schools. They were furious. There was no other fiction of it. But now when they look back on it, they're like, “Wow! you got to travel the world. It gave you so much perspective.
You became so independent. You figured out how to solve the problem by having to be in Mexico City and find a cable and stuff like that.” So I think they can see that retroactively, but at the time they didn't necessarily support it. So, I think approaching it without a lens helps as well.
Jeremy Au: (32:14)
Amazing! Oh, thank you so much. I love to paraphrase, I think the three big takeaways I got from this. The first, of course, is thank you for sharing. I think that high level industry perspective on market launching and obviously kind of setting the context and takeaways from your experience being a global market manager and manager and how to compete against local companies and vice versa, how local companies compete with global companies.
I think it of course is thank you so much for sharing, I think your own personal experience with executive and female code switching. I think the challenges that other women face in the workplace, especially in the technology space, I think it was really interesting to hear you share your own personal experience as well as how that generalises to other folks.
And lastly, thank you so much for sharing about community design, about how you think about creating safe and secure environments for folks, but also your vulnerability index, your community selection process and everything that happens to convert what folks consider a weakness into something that's a shared community value. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Yolanda Lee: (33:17)
Thanks for having me, Jeremy. It was a pleasure!